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Replying To galwayford:  "TG4 are the best for rural Ireland imho. They show the true Irish Catholic story. Apologies to Irish Protestants."
Your probably right, only problem I can't speak Irish fluent, 50% my fault and 50% on how it is thought, try get people to speak it first before moving onto the literature side of things

DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 140 - 13/10/2020 18:16:07    2297339

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Not at all and regardless is a mile better than the orange yoke running for the republicans"
Why

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1358 - 13/10/2020 18:49:35    2297353

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Replying To MicktheMiller:  "Not every religious person abused someone in their care, teaching or whatever. There are cases of lay teachers abusing pupils, just as lay persons abused children, sometimes family members.
The big problem with the church was those in authority ignored the problem, until it exploded in their faces.
There is a plan to deal with incidents in each diocese now, and so there should be.
The bad eggs ruined things for the majority who did no wrong."
Good points mick I would have faith myself and go to mass but what some elements in the church did in this country and those who tried to hide it, should never be forgiven or forgotten and the church still has a long way to go to regain trust, but saying all that I had something personal during the year and I got good support from my pp and I believe prayer and support from others with other things made things come good in the end.

Dev gave the church its power and with power comes corruption and the state and the church had a big responsibility in protecting children and failed vulnerable young mothers and children in their care and I believe the state knew and did nothing. The stories out of Tuam really tested me but I managed to not let it ruin my faith but I believe there a place for all those who committed those crimes against humanity and that's what it was make no mistake and they are getting what they deserve now.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 719 - 13/10/2020 22:29:43    2297408

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Replying To lilypad:  "Why"
Because of how trump has acted since getting into politics, especially since becoming president.
His economic policies, his isolationist policies, his foreign affairs policies etc etc

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1659 - 13/10/2020 23:05:51    2297416

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "Good points mick I would have faith myself and go to mass but what some elements in the church did in this country and those who tried to hide it, should never be forgiven or forgotten and the church still has a long way to go to regain trust, but saying all that I had something personal during the year and I got good support from my pp and I believe prayer and support from others with other things made things come good in the end.

Dev gave the church its power and with power comes corruption and the state and the church had a big responsibility in protecting children and failed vulnerable young mothers and children in their care and I believe the state knew and did nothing. The stories out of Tuam really tested me but I managed to not let it ruin my faith but I believe there a place for all those who committed those crimes against humanity and that's what it was make no mistake and they are getting what they deserve now."
The Catholic Church had control and power over Ireland long before Dev to be fair.

The British understood that one parish priest could do a better job than 1,000 redcoats in keeping the peasants and savages in their rightful place.

The Catholic Church has been a cancerous parasite in Ireland for hundreds of years. It may have contributed positively at times but any positive contribution made is outweighed by the bad and evil that it was its stock and trade.

Wealth, power and control were their real trinity.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13148 - 14/10/2020 09:47:38    2297451

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Replying To MesAmis:  "The Catholic Church had control and power over Ireland long before Dev to be fair.

The British understood that one parish priest could do a better job than 1,000 redcoats in keeping the peasants and savages in their rightful place.

The Catholic Church has been a cancerous parasite in Ireland for hundreds of years. It may have contributed positively at times but any positive contribution made is outweighed by the bad and evil that it was its stock and trade.

Wealth, power and control were their real trinity."
I don't agree with that extremist populist view, but you won't change it. What about the penal laws, the Catholic Church and people were persecuted, just for being Catholic. How can you say they had power for hundreds of years?.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 117 - 14/10/2020 10:48:56    2297468

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Replying To MicktheMiller:  "I don't agree with that extremist populist view, but you won't change it. What about the penal laws, the Catholic Church and people were persecuted, just for being Catholic. How can you say they had power for hundreds of years?."
You could take Mes' post and replace "catholic" with Islam, Christian, etc. and replace Ireland with just about any country on earth at some moment in time or another. The sentiment is invariably the same. . .

Religion is a tool used to control the masses. Christianity is the one which was used to expand the influence of the roman empire.

As for Catholics being persecuted, it was an English pope who gave Britain the go-ahead to invade Ireland (not that they wouldn't have anyway), as Rome's view was that the Catholic Church in Ireland was growing in a whole different direction separate from Vatican influence.

The war for Independence in Ireland a century ago was fought on the ideal of an Irish constitution which gave its citizens the right to their faith of choice (although it did mention Jesus Christ quite a lot).

With the country bankrupt following the achievement of Independence, Dev turned to the church. It was the only viable option at the time, without question. But it should have been a short term solution which we shouldn't still be trying to separate ourselves from 100 years later.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4150 - 14/10/2020 12:12:48    2297499

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Replying To MicktheMiller:  "I don't agree with that extremist populist view, but you won't change it. What about the penal laws, the Catholic Church and people were persecuted, just for being Catholic. How can you say they had power for hundreds of years?."
I disagree with your assertion that my view is extremist in any way. I think it is fair.

There's a reason that the British turned to Catholic Church in Ireland at the end of the 18th Century. The Catholic Church was already extremely powerful in spite of its persecution previously. The Church then had even more control and power than before and often used that power in an evil and corrupt way. I don't see anything wrong with stating that.

The Catholic Church has had power, at varying degrees in Ireland, since with 5th Century. There was a period of time after the Cromwellian conquest in particular where that power waned a little but they had largely reasserted that power by the end of the 18th century and kept a vice like grip on that power into the late 20th century.

Thankfully that power has been broken and will, hopefully, never be repaired.

I've no problem with anyone believing whatever they want, as long as they do not want to harm and control other people. The vast majority of people of faith are good people. Throughout it's history though we've seen that the Catholic Church as an institution has sought to harm and control people always. It is an inherently evil organisation in that regard in my opinion. There have of course been good works done by the Catholic Church and those associated with it, but it is far outweighed by the damage and evil perpetrated in it's name in my opinion.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13148 - 14/10/2020 13:00:24    2297518

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Because of how trump has acted since getting into politics, especially since becoming president.
His economic policies, his isolationist policies, his foreign affairs policies etc etc"
Yeh go on, elaborate, as far as I can see the 'wars' and terrorism attacks have have fallen off in a big way since he took over, and is the American economy not supposed to be doing well?

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1358 - 14/10/2020 13:02:46    2297521

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Replying To MesAmis:  "I disagree with your assertion that my view is extremist in any way. I think it is fair.

There's a reason that the British turned to Catholic Church in Ireland at the end of the 18th Century. The Catholic Church was already extremely powerful in spite of its persecution previously. The Church then had even more control and power than before and often used that power in an evil and corrupt way. I don't see anything wrong with stating that.

The Catholic Church has had power, at varying degrees in Ireland, since with 5th Century. There was a period of time after the Cromwellian conquest in particular where that power waned a little but they had largely reasserted that power by the end of the 18th century and kept a vice like grip on that power into the late 20th century.

Thankfully that power has been broken and will, hopefully, never be repaired.

I've no problem with anyone believing whatever they want, as long as they do not want to harm and control other people. The vast majority of people of faith are good people. Throughout it's history though we've seen that the Catholic Church as an institution has sought to harm and control people always. It is an inherently evil organisation in that regard in my opinion. There have of course been good works done by the Catholic Church and those associated with it, but it is far outweighed by the damage and evil perpetrated in it's name in my opinion."
Absolutely 100% on point.

And it's absolutely unthinkable that anyone could find it in them to disagree.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4150 - 14/10/2020 13:17:09    2297530

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Replying To MesAmis:  "The Catholic Church had control and power over Ireland long before Dev to be fair.

The British understood that one parish priest could do a better job than 1,000 redcoats in keeping the peasants and savages in their rightful place.

The Catholic Church has been a cancerous parasite in Ireland for hundreds of years. It may have contributed positively at times but any positive contribution made is outweighed by the bad and evil that it was its stock and trade.

Wealth, power and control were their real trinity."
I don't disagree with most of what you say but without trying to be pedantic, I don't think the Catholic church had power when the country was under British rule but it certainly had influence on the Catholic population. Eamon de Valera gave them the power and by god did they abuse it.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 719 - 14/10/2020 18:23:57    2297613

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Replying To lilypad:  "Yeh go on, elaborate, as far as I can see the 'wars' and terrorism attacks have have fallen off in a big way since he took over, and is the American economy not supposed to be doing well?"
Or his rollback of environmental issues which isnt good for anyone long term
His cuts to welfare.
Trump's "America First" foreign policy has been characterized by unilateral actions, disregarding the advice and support of many traditional allies. Despite pledges to reduce the U.S. soldiers deployed overseas, the number was essentially unchanged three years into Trump's presidency.
His government agreed to sell $110 billion of arms to Saudi Arabia, recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and issued a controversial executive order denying citizens from several Muslim-majority countries entry into the U.S. He withdrew U.S. troops from northern Syria, allowing Turkey to attack U.S.-allied Kurds.
His insistence on getting wall built on mexican border resulted in a month long shut down of the government.

Mueller and russian interference. And thats not going into much detail. He has further divided the country.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1659 - 14/10/2020 19:38:16    2297636

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Or his rollback of environmental issues which isnt good for anyone long term
His cuts to welfare.
Trump's "America First" foreign policy has been characterized by unilateral actions, disregarding the advice and support of many traditional allies. Despite pledges to reduce the U.S. soldiers deployed overseas, the number was essentially unchanged three years into Trump's presidency.
His government agreed to sell $110 billion of arms to Saudi Arabia, recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and issued a controversial executive order denying citizens from several Muslim-majority countries entry into the U.S. He withdrew U.S. troops from northern Syria, allowing Turkey to attack U.S.-allied Kurds.
His insistence on getting wall built on mexican border resulted in a month long shut down of the government.

Mueller and russian interference. And thats not going into much detail. He has further divided the country."
And after all that he still hasn't a patch on the likes of Obama or Bush for the slaughter of innocent lives.
Obama promised troop withdrawal and one of the first things he did was send another 30,000, now come on. Trump has actually withdrawn troops. As for allies, you mean the British and the French? Give me a break.
For all the doomsday scenarios painted for his term, they must have used colours that run in the rain. And 'dodgy carry on? Bush, Hilary Clinton????

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1358 - 14/10/2020 22:46:55    2297670

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Plus, the USA has always been divided. Its the monumental push by the left, Antifa, BLM, have put the global spotlight on it with all their violent protests.

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1358 - 14/10/2020 22:58:16    2297673

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PREVIEW

Cogadh ar Mhná

The history books will now show with great accuracy the barbaric, sickening and degrading treatment of Women during the war of independence and the civil war at least, by professional, semi-professional and amateur men. These are separate acts to that of the church, it's another chapter in our history to show the type of people we are or can be, all inclusive. Plan B needed badly.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2162 - 14/10/2020 23:15:17    2297680

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Replying To supersub15:  "PREVIEW

Cogadh ar Mhná

The history books will now show with great accuracy the barbaric, sickening and degrading treatment of Women during the war of independence and the civil war at least, by professional, semi-professional and amateur men. These are separate acts to that of the church, it's another chapter in our history to show the type of people we are or can be, all inclusive. Plan B needed badly."
Regarding the treatment of women, have you ever seen what happened to German women in 1945 at the end of WW2. It was called the largest rape in history. Ok, the German army invaded Russia and other countries so there was payback. Or the treatment of women in France, Czech republic and other places post liberation by the Allies, who were girlfriends of German soldiers during the war. They had their hair shaven and were ran through the streets. Also the treatment of African slave women during the British empire slave trade. Check it out on youtube.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1930 - 15/10/2020 11:15:58    2297740

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Replying To galwayford:  "
Replying To supersub15:  "PREVIEW

Cogadh ar Mhná

The history books will now show with great accuracy the barbaric, sickening and degrading treatment of Women during the war of independence and the civil war at least, by professional, semi-professional and amateur men. These are separate acts to that of the church, it's another chapter in our history to show the type of people we are or can be, all inclusive. Plan B needed badly."
Regarding the treatment of women, have you ever seen what happened to German women in 1945 at the end of WW2. It was called the largest rape in history. Ok, the German army invaded Russia and other countries so there was payback. Or the treatment of women in France, Czech republic and other places post liberation by the Allies, who were girlfriends of German soldiers during the war. They had their hair shaven and were ran through the streets. Also the treatment of African slave women during the British empire slave trade. Check it out on youtube."
The most horrific treatment of women award surely rests with the Japanese in the 30s.

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1358 - 15/10/2020 17:51:26    2297836

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Replying To lilypad:  "And after all that he still hasn't a patch on the likes of Obama or Bush for the slaughter of innocent lives.
Obama promised troop withdrawal and one of the first things he did was send another 30,000, now come on. Trump has actually withdrawn troops. As for allies, you mean the British and the French? Give me a break.
For all the doomsday scenarios painted for his term, they must have used colours that run in the rain. And 'dodgy carry on? Bush, Hilary Clinton????"
Very true.

I don't like Trump but I agree with many things he says and the witch-hunt from the start was pathetic. Obama created isis as he funded jihadis in Syrian civil war (who turned into Isis)right after he withdrew troops from Iraq and left a massive power vacuum.

The temporary banning of immigrants from certain Muslim countries will be standard practice across the world in a few years, anyone with a basic understanding of Wahhabism and it's teachings will understand why. Europe already mimicking Israel in its defenses - ever wonder why there are suddenly huge concrete flower boxes each end of grafton street? They there for decoration? And similar steel or stone structures at the ends of every thoroughfare across the globe? Christmas Markets in Europe now look like fortresses.

His way of talking about women? JFK anyone??!!!

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 928 - 15/10/2020 19:37:28    2297864

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Replying To galwayford:  "
Replying To supersub15:  "PREVIEW

Cogadh ar Mhná

The history books will now show with great accuracy the barbaric, sickening and degrading treatment of Women during the war of independence and the civil war at least, by professional, semi-professional and amateur men. These are separate acts to that of the church, it's another chapter in our history to show the type of people we are or can be, all inclusive. Plan B needed badly."
Regarding the treatment of women, have you ever seen what happened to German women in 1945 at the end of WW2. It was called the largest rape in history. Ok, the German army invaded Russia and other countries so there was payback. Or the treatment of women in France, Czech republic and other places post liberation by the Allies, who were girlfriends of German soldiers during the war. They had their hair shaven and were ran through the streets. Also the treatment of African slave women during the British empire slave trade. Check it out on youtube."
I wouldn't disagree at all, there's a lot I don't know about the happenings in different wars but I think in general I am reasonably up to speed, WW2 was horrific no doubt, as was the atrocities committed by the Japanese, one Japanese atrocity was known as the Asian Holocaust. The information available about all those wars is endless.
Lots of countries have committed terrible atrocities in the ungodly name of war and peace, the smallest atrocity dwarfed by one of greater magnitude doesn't make the smaller one any less significant, or does it.? Wars of words seem to be the norm now, as in accusations, threats, scare mongering and all that stuff.

- This is just a general comment, if the United States is in their own words the mightiest nation or super power on earth, how come covid-19 is all but out of control with them, along with that how come they are no nearer than anyone else of rolling out a successful vaccine.

The contents of Cogadh ar Mhná and the manner in which it was narrated was news to me,so for that reason I,m more interested in what happens in my own country than that of any other but the way things are sometimes new issues are likely to pop up at any given time.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2162 - 15/10/2020 22:27:03    2297910

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Replying To supersub15:  "
Replying To galwayford:  "[quote=supersub15:  "PREVIEW

Cogadh ar Mhná

The history books will now show with great accuracy the barbaric, sickening and degrading treatment of Women during the war of independence and the civil war at least, by professional, semi-professional and amateur men. These are separate acts to that of the church, it's another chapter in our history to show the type of people we are or can be, all inclusive. Plan B needed badly."
Regarding the treatment of women, have you ever seen what happened to German women in 1945 at the end of WW2. It was called the largest rape in history. Ok, the German army invaded Russia and other countries so there was payback. Or the treatment of women in France, Czech republic and other places post liberation by the Allies, who were girlfriends of German soldiers during the war. They had their hair shaven and were ran through the streets. Also the treatment of African slave women during the British empire slave trade. Check it out on youtube."
I wouldn't disagree at all, there's a lot I don't know about the happenings in different wars but I think in general I am reasonably up to speed, WW2 was horrific no doubt, as was the atrocities committed by the Japanese, one Japanese atrocity was known as the Asian Holocaust. The information available about all those wars is endless.
Lots of countries have committed terrible atrocities in the ungodly name of war and peace, the smallest atrocity dwarfed by one of greater magnitude doesn't make the smaller one any less significant, or does it.? Wars of words seem to be the norm now, as in accusations, threats, scare mongering and all that stuff.

- This is just a general comment, if the United States is in their own words the mightiest nation or super power on earth, how come covid-19 is all but out of control with them, along with that how come they are no nearer than anyone else of rolling out a successful vaccine.

The contents of Cogadh ar Mhná and the manner in which it was narrated was news to me,so for that reason I,m more interested in what happens in my own country than that of any other but the way things are sometimes new issues are likely to pop up at any given time."]Yes the raping of Nanking puts the Nazis in the shade.

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1358 - 15/10/2020 22:58:58    2297918

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