National - Intermediate final - Amazing game

Replying To Torcaill:  "A very strange refereeing decision nearly cost Westport the game - the penalty incident."
Not really what was strange about it as it was a penalty

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts:14923 - 20/02/2017 14:01:38   1958679

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Replying To Dellboypolecat:  "Not really what was strange about it as it was a penalty"
Not sure but I thought play had restarted and ref then stopped, talked to his officials and then awarded penalty.
If play has restarted, I would imagine he can't go back and award the penalty. It was a definite penalty though, rush of blood to the head as someone said earlier, thankfully didn't cost them in the end!

Tubberman (Mayo) - Posts:26 - 20/02/2017 14:47:05   1958704

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Replying To Tubberman:  "Not sure but I thought play had restarted and ref then stopped, talked to his officials and then awarded penalty.
If play has restarted, I would imagine he can't go back and award the penalty. It was a definite penalty though, rush of blood to the head as someone said earlier, thankfully didn't cost them in the end!"
yeh definitely a penalty, now I haven't watched it back yet, bit I don't think play had resumed, from looking from stand ref waved it on then as ball about to be kicked put up one hand to say wait and had other on his ear.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10694 - 20/02/2017 14:55:28   1958709

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Replying To Tubberman:  "Not sure but I thought play had restarted and ref then stopped, talked to his officials and then awarded penalty.
If play has restarted, I would imagine he can't go back and award the penalty. It was a definite penalty though, rush of blood to the head as someone said earlier, thankfully didn't cost them in the end!"
Btw I agree with you, nothing sinister in it, goalie just got a rush of blood to head, the funny thing if you can call it that is our player would not have reached the ball, so just let him run by would have been best option

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10694 - 20/02/2017 14:58:25   1958712

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Sorry under the rules he was perfectly correct to issue penalty, the cilles player was taken down in square before ball went out, therefore been deliberately tripped while trying to retrieve ball, it was stupidity on behalf of goalie (don't want to be hard on the lad we all do stupid things) but it was clearly a black card and penalty"
Under the rules the referee cannot award a penalty after he had blown his whistle to resume play. The umpire on the left signalled wide and the ref indicated same by blowing the whistle to stop play. He resumed his position out the pitch and blew his whistle for the kick out to be taken. When this was being done he was contacted by the other umpire who brought to the refs attention the foul play by the keeper (which the umpire is entitled to do).

See 1.2 VII in the Duties of the Referee in the rule book.
"Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision."

So while the referee was correct in issuing the black card, he was incorrect in awarding the penalty.

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts:141 - 20/02/2017 16:13:08   1958758

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Replying To Torcaill:  "Under the rules the referee cannot award a penalty after he had blown his whistle to resume play. The umpire on the left signalled wide and the ref indicated same by blowing the whistle to stop play. He resumed his position out the pitch and blew his whistle for the kick out to be taken. When this was being done he was contacted by the other umpire who brought to the refs attention the foul play by the keeper (which the umpire is entitled to do).

See 1.2 VII in the Duties of the Referee in the rule book.
"Once the referee has given a decision and has sounded his whistle to restart play, he shall not alter that decision."

So while the referee was correct in issuing the black card, he was incorrect in awarding the penalty."
He had not blown his whistle to resume play as far as I am aware, however what you are arguing is for a blatant penalty to be disregarded? Which is nonsense, not one Westport fan at match had a problem with awarding of penalty (apart from their own keeper giving it away) are you trying to advocate it wasn't a penalty? Or that ref should have said I made a mistake but stuff you anyway, or I made a error it has been brought to my attention and I will do what I should have in first instance. It was a penalty, it was a trip on a player running to a ball in square, show me any rule that says that are not a penalty? The ref used common sense and should be applauded for doing so, not dragged over the coals for doing the right thing.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10694 - 20/02/2017 16:29:44   1958769

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Well done Westport St Patrick's

gerund (Mayo) - Posts:9 - 20/02/2017 22:47:05   1958945

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You said that under the rules the ref was perfectly correct in awarding the penalty. I just showed you that he was not. I am not saying that it wasn't a penalty and a black card, just that proper procedure was not followed. Not debating natural justice, fair play, etc., just clarifying the rule. (By the way, the ref had gone out past the 45 and had blown his whistle to restart with the keeper in the act of kicking the ball when he stopped play)

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts:141 - 20/02/2017 22:57:40   1958948

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Replying To Torcaill:  "You said that under the rules the ref was perfectly correct in awarding the penalty. I just showed you that he was not. I am not saying that it wasn't a penalty and a black card, just that proper procedure was not followed. Not debating natural justice, fair play, etc., just clarifying the rule. (By the way, the ref had gone out past the 45 and had blown his whistle to restart with the keeper in the act of kicking the ball when he stopped play)"
One things for sure he wasn't over 45 line he was between both.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10694 - 21/02/2017 08:26:57   1958996

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Replying To royaldunne:  "One things for sure he wasn't over 45 line he was between both."
Stop digging :) Have a look on youtube - he was just past the 45 when he stopped play to go back and have a chat with the umpires. It didn't end up costing Westport, but just nice to clarify the issue.

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts:141 - 21/02/2017 10:09:21   1959026

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Replying To Torcaill:  "Stop digging :) Have a look on youtube - he was just past the 45 when he stopped play to go back and have a chat with the umpires. It didn't end up costing Westport, but just nice to clarify the issue."
Yeah it was a penalty that's all the clarity that's needed. If Martin sludden had listened to his umpire the way that ref did very few would have complained even from Meath, congratulations to ref on using comnon sense

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10694 - 21/02/2017 13:27:25   1959133

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Yeah it was a penalty that's all the clarity that's needed. If Martin sludden had listened to his umpire the way that ref did very few would have complained even from Meath, congratulations to ref on using comnon sense"
To be fair i dont think he's disputing whether it was a penalty or not, that phase of play was finished with the referee taking no action, he allowed the goalkeeper to place the ball and take the kick out and then he blew his whistle which under the rules is not allowed, once he has made his decision he's not allowed go back on it, in fairness i dont think many would have complained if he had awarded it at the time it happened

glasagusdhearg (Mayo) - Posts:11 - 21/02/2017 21:47:58   1959374

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Replying To Torcaill:  "Stop digging :) Have a look on youtube - he was just past the 45 when he stopped play to go back and have a chat with the umpires. It didn't end up costing Westport, but just nice to clarify the issue."
Have you the link so I can have look

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts:14923 - 21/02/2017 22:07:18   1959387

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Replying To glasagusdhearg:  "To be fair i dont think he's disputing whether it was a penalty or not, that phase of play was finished with the referee taking no action, he allowed the goalkeeper to place the ball and take the kick out and then he blew his whistle which under the rules is not allowed, once he has made his decision he's not allowed go back on it, in fairness i dont think many would have complained if he had awarded it at the time it happened"
He had indicated he was doing something prior to ball been kicked, so technically game had not resumed, this is within the rules even if he was in other goalmouth at time, ball had not been played, just cause it was kicked after ref had indicated he was changing his mind makes it a nothing kick . it was within rules

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10694 - 21/02/2017 22:53:15   1959405

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Replying To royaldunne:  "He had indicated he was doing something prior to ball been kicked, so technically game had not resumed, this is within the rules even if he was in other goalmouth at time, ball had not been played, just cause it was kicked after ref had indicated he was changing his mind makes it a nothing kick . it was within rules"
he waved the colmcille player's away, he walked out past the 45, allowed the kickout to be taken and then called it back. go back and watch it

glasagusdhearg (Mayo) - Posts:11 - 21/02/2017 23:12:51   1959416

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Replying To Dellboypolecat:  "Have you the link so I can have look"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_e802AT-5Ac

216:15

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:3422 - 22/02/2017 02:36:16   1959445

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Replying To royaldunne:  "He had indicated he was doing something prior to ball been kicked, so technically game had not resumed, this is within the rules even if he was in other goalmouth at time, ball had not been played, just cause it was kicked after ref had indicated he was changing his mind makes it a nothing kick . it was within rules"
The rule is once the whistle is blown to restart play, the ref cannot change his decision - for any reason (see rule above). Makes no difference whether the ball was kicked or not. I'm not sure if you are a wind up or trying to read something into the rule that isn't there. I have tried explaining that what the ref did (i.e. award the penalty) was NOT within the rules but awarding the black card is. I'll leave it there.

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts:141 - 22/02/2017 07:51:53   1959449

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After watching it the ref was wrong awarding penalty he should have consulted in first place but he waved players away first and ran out field .strange maybe common sense used but not the right protocol

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts:14923 - 22/02/2017 11:55:16   1959522

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Admit it you're wrong RoyalDunne and move on.

RoylerKing (Meath) - Posts:565 - 23/02/2017 11:52:11   1959832

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Replying To Torcaill:  "A very strange refereeing decision nearly cost Westport the game - the penalty incident."
I agree it was strange to see him go back 30 seconds later and give the penalty. How many coaches have said to you over the years "The ref wont change his mind" well he did!

The keeper gave the ref a decision to make when there was no need. Hi could have caught the ball.

unclegerry (Mayo) - Posts:1099 - 23/02/2017 13:07:59   1959864

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