National - Tadhg De Burca's red card

Replying To thelongridge:  "Are there too many appeal avenues in the GAA? CHC, CAC, and DRA, that is 3 bodies looking at the same case. There should be one appeals body whose decision is final, it would shorten the process, and save counties the expense of appeal after appeal.


I am sorry for Tadhg De Burca, he is a terrific player, with a good disciplinary record, and will be disappointed at missing the semi final. It is a blow to Waterford."
Weren't cases going to the High Court previously.The Gaa has it's internal appellate process and the DRA was set up as a final avenue of appeal.I think the DRA has a member or members with legal qualifications and the body is independent of the gaa per se.I'm sorry for De Burca.I wouldn't criticise the process but it did take too long to be finalised.Could the DRA not have met and heard the appeal and given it's decision last Monday or Tuesday.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts:586 - 11/08/2017 11:45:23   2032303

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Replying To Gaillimh_Abu:  "I am obviously a Galway fan (living overseas) and I completely missed the Aidan Touhy helmet incident while watching the game on Sunday. I subsequently watched the Sunday Game analysis after reading about the controversy and I have to say that it looked to me like he was deliberately trying to reach back to grab Maher's helmet. The fact that Touhy got off while de Burca is suspended for a less obvious transgression is a travesty. The GAA's disciplinary process continues to be a complete joke."
It wasnt less obvious to the linesman standing beside the incident. He saw it , red card offence, ref gave the card, end of story, how could he get off?
Hard to prove he didnt do it . Only a technicality could have saved him.
Touhys wasnt spotted by the match officials on the day which makes it less likely for him to be suspended unless 100% clearcut.

conordee (Galway) - Posts:261 - 11/08/2017 11:52:05   2032309

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The DRA's adjudication on Diarmuid Connolly's appeal was a complete joke.

I'd never respect them again after that.

Personally,I think De Burca has been hard done by here (although Fergal usually gets things right 'cos he's an excellent referee).

Moyle (Tipperary) - Posts:11 - 11/08/2017 12:12:47   2032321

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Replying To conordee:  "It wasnt less obvious to the linesman standing beside the incident. He saw it , red card offence, ref gave the card, end of story, how could he get off?
Hard to prove he didnt do it . Only a technicality could have saved him.
Touhys wasnt spotted by the match officials on the day which makes it less likely for him to be suspended unless 100% clearcut."
But Tuohy's action is clear-cut. The circumstances differ in that one incident was spotted by the officials and the other wasn't so the process was predicated in the first case in that De Burca had to show/prove that the red card was incorrect while in the second case the CCCC had to decide if further action was required. If the officials had missed the De Burca incident would the cccc have revisited? (Don't think so). The outcome as is, that one player is free to play while the other is not is to say the least less that satisfactory. I have no preference for Waterford or Galway winning the Liam McCarthy cup, in fact I'd be delighted for either of them, and I believe a one match ban for either incident to be harsh.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts:62 - 11/08/2017 13:47:33   2032359

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Replying To Moyle:  "The DRA's adjudication on Diarmuid Connolly's appeal was a complete joke.

I'd never respect them again after that.

Personally,I think De Burca has been hard done by here (although Fergal usually gets things right 'cos he's an excellent referee)."
Nothing to do with Horgan. The linesman Keenan recommended he be sent off after Kehoe had a good cry for himself.

At least Kehoe's reputation is in tact after his 'heroic' efforts to help with the appeal.

People are saying at least the integrity of the rules will be maintained now and I totally get where they are coming from with that. My fear is players could open their own helmet during a coming together and claim the other player did it or some sort of manipulation like that.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts:1986 - 11/08/2017 14:03:12   2032363

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Replying To endgame:  "Weren't cases going to the High Court previously.The Gaa has it's internal appellate process and the DRA was set up as a final avenue of appeal.I think the DRA has a member or members with legal qualifications and the body is independent of the gaa per se.I'm sorry for De Burca.I wouldn't criticise the process but it did take too long to be finalised.Could the DRA not have met and heard the appeal and given it's decision last Monday or Tuesday."
Yes the DRA does have members with legal qualifications, it was set up a few years ago. If you had one appellate body with some members of the legal profession, and experienced referees, it might reach decisions more quickly than the current three step process. That body's decision should be final.

In sport players are sanctioned for a breach of the playing rules, the GAA operate a card system. Any appeal request should be considered on whether there was an offence committed justifying a sending off, red card offence. Officials have to make a decision instantly using their judgement in a game, being human they sometimes get it wrong. An appeal then is worth following.

There is a theory if you do the crime, you do the time, but in some instances that is not followed, and an appeal is lodged. It is normally high profile teams, and on occasions there is a clear breach of the rules, but an appeal succeeds. That makes people disillusioned with the process.
I personally think the Waterford player was harshly done by, but the rule is clear on interference with a helmet.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts:681 - 11/08/2017 14:27:36   2032373

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Replying To catch22:  "It certainly looked pretty conclusive afterwards and unfortunately if there is to be consistency he will have to miss out on an AI final."
The Semi Final has not been played yet. If the Decies win, you can be sure he will be playing in the final

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts:1323 - 11/08/2017 14:44:13   2032377

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Replying To Moyle:  "The DRA's adjudication on Diarmuid Connolly's appeal was a complete joke.

I'd never respect them again after that.

Personally,I think De Burca has been hard done by here (although Fergal usually gets things right 'cos he's an excellent referee)."
Why?

AHP (Dublin) - Posts:233 - 11/08/2017 14:50:53   2032378

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "The Semi Final has not been played yet. If the Decies win, you can be sure he will be playing in the final"
I was referring to the Tuohy incident in the Tipp match.
That was why I mentioned consistency.

catch22 (USA) - Posts:462 - 11/08/2017 16:26:50   2032408

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Yes the DRA does have members with legal qualifications, it was set up a few years ago. If you had one appellate body with some members of the legal profession, and experienced referees, it might reach decisions more quickly than the current three step process. That body's decision should be final.

In sport players are sanctioned for a breach of the playing rules, the GAA operate a card system. Any appeal request should be considered on whether there was an offence committed justifying a sending off, red card offence. Officials have to make a decision instantly using their judgement in a game, being human they sometimes get it wrong. An appeal then is worth following.

There is a theory if you do the crime, you do the time, but in some instances that is not followed, and an appeal is lodged. It is normally high profile teams, and on occasions there is a clear breach of the rules, but an appeal succeeds. That makes people disillusioned with the process.
I personally think the Waterford player was harshly done by, but the rule is clear on interference with a helmet."
You my dear neighbour have hit the nail on the head - an excellent post IMO

If this was the other way around, all would have been sorted in the first appeal.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts:749 - 11/08/2017 16:30:07   2032410

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I completely disagree with you. What you are forgetting is that what you viewed in the SG was in slow motion --- something that happened in perhaps two hundreds of a second spread out over 2 or 3 seconds. You said yourself you missed the incident in real time. When a split second action like that is viewed in slow motion it is absolutely certain to look worse than it is and appear to carry intention.

There are no inconsistencies here. The TDB incident was observed by the linesman, brought to the attention of the ref, and punishment meted out within the context of the game. For one thing, how do you know that the same linesman who observed the TDB incident and was in the correct position to observe the Tuohy incident also, didn't actually observe the Tuohy incident? Because that is what you are assuming. He may well have observed it, decided that there was no case to answer, and let the incident go without bringing it to the attention of the referee. In this context, it would be completely inconsistent if the disciplinary committee were to accept the match officials' decision in one incident (DeBurca's) and reject them in the other (Tuohy's).

It is only appropriate and just to use video evidence against a player when it is absolutely 100% certain that there was deliberate foul play and the player fully intended their action. That threshold is not reached in the Tuohy incident. At most it is at 50%. It would be completely wrong to suspend him on the basis of a half certainty in the absence of any action being taken by the match officials against the player within the game itself.

To my mind, there was no intention in the DeBurca incident either (or at least he was only partly to blame for it since his main motive was to get past the Wexford player who was obstructing his path) and personally I would have liked to see him allowed play on Sunday. However, he received a red card within the game and there is no way he could win his appeal for that reason. It is unfortunate that he is suspended for Sunday but it is not unjust."
I am not suggesting that Touhy should be suspended. I am just saying that when I look at the two incidents, Touhy's appears to be the one that involved more "intent" and it seems grossly unfair that De Burca is suspended. I get your points about De Burca having received a red card and the threshold required for video evidence in Touhy's situation. This is a case of the rules being strictly applied but of justice not being done. Both incidents were fairly trivial and undeserving of any sanction in my opinion. I'm sure that numerous comparable incidents go completely unnoticed over the course of a season.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts:676 - 11/08/2017 18:29:41   2032433

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Replying To Moyle:  "The DRA's adjudication on Diarmuid Connolly's appeal was a complete joke.

I'd never respect them again after that.

Personally,I think De Burca has been hard done by here (although Fergal usually gets things right 'cos he's an excellent referee)."
You don't understand the ruling on Connolly you'd want to read it again, it was a travesty, the guy was in a choke hold he was entitled to defend himself end off by any means as you are in self defence on the street. There ruling was quite damning " that the case against the Dublin footballer was "a breach of fair procedures, a significant impairment of his rights and was disproportionate, irrational and unfair." couldn't be much clearer Brolly was bang on the money with this one.

BTW DRA is completely independent body and it is made of legal councils it has the final say on anything, and the reason for the delay is all other avenues have to eb exhausted before they can meet.

arock (Dublin) - Posts:3454 - 11/08/2017 20:42:23   2032454

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Well the bookies sure have this nailed down to a t, once the red card gets held the Deise have no hope back down to dungarvan ye go. Hon the cork -2

OverBlackSpot (Roscommon) - Posts:44 - 11/08/2017 22:41:59   2032487

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