National - All-Ireland Junior Football Final

Replying To TheHermit:  "Yes but Rangers had to play a relegation play-off so it is a relegation play off system not based on League positions"
NO they didnt - it's the lowest of the 8 losers there are no playoffs at all in Intermediate, only in Senior

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts:210 - 21/02/2017 23:54:35   1959428

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Replying To benched:  "But I thought league and championship are totally separate??"
That is the only case where County League position comes into play

So unlike Rock who were in the Junior 2 years ago and this year, G/G won't be in Junior for a very long time barring a cataclysmic 5/6 years which won't happen given the young players coming through there

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts:210 - 21/02/2017 23:57:21   1959429

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I think more counties should adopt similar championship structures to Kerry. Particularly the idea of divisional sides entering the senior championship. This means that every footballer in the county gets a fair crack at senior club football and as mentioned previously put yourself in front of county management for selection. I wish my own county would adopt a similar approach. It widens the net and provides a platform for players from smaller clubs to test themselves against the big boys. It has to raise the standard across the board.
Having been in Croke Park for the last 2 years at the junior / inter club finals I would have to say that the standard on both days is very high across the 4 games I seen. I do however understand why people question how teams who operate in Division 1 can line out in junior championship. I know you say that champ and league are not linked but I know that to play in Division 1 of any league is a fair achievement.
In fact I witnessed a fine young Templenoe team last year win the junior final. They were junior in name only and I think I recall a Kerry man telling me that had defeated the Intermediate winners StMarys (another classy outfit) already that year. They now play Division 1 football in Kerry as well.
In Mayo for example there are 16 teams in senior championship (4 *4 groups) and 16 teams in the Inter championship so in theory the team that wins the junior title in Mayo is the 33rd ranked team.
As a matter of interest how many clubs compete in the senior and intermediate championships in Kerry excluding the divisional sides?And how many teams compete in junior premier and junior? Interested to know

Weary (All) - Posts:167 - 22/02/2017 01:01:48   1959434

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "I find the fact the Ulster teams still have this system when everybody else doesn't worrying. I actually like the Ulster system, however as far as I know every other county separated league and champ about 20 years ago.

The problem is that you should not be able to play championship in two counties in the same year. By playing league in two counties thatvisxexactly what you are doing.

I know for a fact that a player in London played Champ in London and then transferred back to Cavan at least twice to save his club from relegation. If Ulster played by the same rules, that would not happen."
you can play championship in london or anywhere else but can't play championship in another county in same year, but you could transfer to another county in same year and play in competitions except championship.

Yourjoking (USA) - Posts:348 - 22/02/2017 01:15:00   1959442

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Replying To Weary:  "I think more counties should adopt similar championship structures to Kerry. Particularly the idea of divisional sides entering the senior championship. This means that every footballer in the county gets a fair crack at senior club football and as mentioned previously put yourself in front of county management for selection. I wish my own county would adopt a similar approach. It widens the net and provides a platform for players from smaller clubs to test themselves against the big boys. It has to raise the standard across the board.
Having been in Croke Park for the last 2 years at the junior / inter club finals I would have to say that the standard on both days is very high across the 4 games I seen. I do however understand why people question how teams who operate in Division 1 can line out in junior championship. I know you say that champ and league are not linked but I know that to play in Division 1 of any league is a fair achievement.
In fact I witnessed a fine young Templenoe team last year win the junior final. They were junior in name only and I think I recall a Kerry man telling me that had defeated the Intermediate winners StMarys (another classy outfit) already that year. They now play Division 1 football in Kerry as well.
In Mayo for example there are 16 teams in senior championship (4 *4 groups) and 16 teams in the Inter championship so in theory the team that wins the junior title in Mayo is the 33rd ranked team.
As a matter of interest how many clubs compete in the senior and intermediate championships in Kerry excluding the divisional sides?And how many teams compete in junior premier and junior? Interested to know"
Up until this year there were 11 clubs, now there are 8 in Senior

The main reason this was changed, people I'm Kerry weren't happy with the standard of the County Championship.

Too many mismatches, some divisional teams too weak , Crokes won 4 in a row without making a mark in the AI Series.

This year the consensus has been that it was the best County Championship in a long time, it has to pointed out that there is a separate Senior Club Championship which determines Kerry's representative in the Munster Championship should a divisional team win the County Championship Crokes actually lost last year's final to Austin Stacks this had to win County Championship to get this far

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts:210 - 22/02/2017 08:50:08   1959463

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "Silly comment. Kerry domestic league and champ effects nobody but Kerry. I would say Tyrone set up is wrong as it appears to not promote county success."
But it does effect other counties, that's what started the debate. It effects other teams in the Munster / All-Ireland junior championships. Although to be fair it seems to be the system in use in more counties than Kerry.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts:409 - 22/02/2017 09:31:14   1959470

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "Up until this year there were 11 clubs, now there are 8 in Senior

The main reason this was changed, people I'm Kerry weren't happy with the standard of the County Championship.

Too many mismatches, some divisional teams too weak , Crokes won 4 in a row without making a mark in the AI Series.

This year the consensus has been that it was the best County Championship in a long time, it has to pointed out that there is a separate Senior Club Championship which determines Kerry's representative in the Munster Championship should a divisional team win the County Championship Crokes actually lost last year's final to Austin Stacks this had to win County Championship to get this far"
Thanks for that. Just to clarify there are 8 senior teams (down from 11) in the enior championship? So how many teams compete in the Intermediate championship? How many in Premier Junior? And how many in junior? And final question is what is the difference between Premier junior and junior (previously Novice)?

Weary (All) - Posts:167 - 22/02/2017 09:38:03   1959471

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other counties begrudging Glenbeigh/Glencar on their win????

G/G are playing junior championship because they never won the Junior Championship...you stay in the grade until you win it!
To call G/G senior is a joke...they have potential to win the Intermediate Kerry next year
The actually beat the Rock from Tyrone who are yoyoing between intermediate and junior.

A we know in intercounty football...league and Championship is totally different. G/G have been beaten by Divison 3/4 teams constantly in the last decade in our junior championship. Labelled as the chokers of kerry. So fair play to them finally getting their act together getting to winning the AI junior and to getting to the top tier of the league in Kerry.

woops (Kerry) - Posts:1764 - 22/02/2017 09:44:29   1959473

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "NO they didnt - it's the lowest of the 8 losers there are no playoffs at all in Intermediate, only in Senior"
Two first cousins play for Finuge, they definitely had to play Skellig in an relegation play-off to retain their intermediate status either last year or the year before.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:2502 - 22/02/2017 09:55:58   1959479

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Two first cousins play for Finuge, they definitely had to play Skellig in an relegation play-off to retain their intermediate status either last year or the year before."
Yes I can remember that game (believe it was very late in the year) but last year there was no playoff at all. Im not sure if this a permanent change or not

You can even check Kerry GAA website , in the Results section Skellig only played 1 game in the Intermediate which was the 1st round game they lost to SMF in April

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts:210 - 22/02/2017 10:31:21   1959487

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Replying To Weary:  "I think more counties should adopt similar championship structures to Kerry. Particularly the idea of divisional sides entering the senior championship. This means that every footballer in the county gets a fair crack at senior club football and as mentioned previously put yourself in front of county management for selection. I wish my own county would adopt a similar approach. It widens the net and provides a platform for players from smaller clubs to test themselves against the big boys. It has to raise the standard across the board.
Having been in Croke Park for the last 2 years at the junior / inter club finals I would have to say that the standard on both days is very high across the 4 games I seen. I do however understand why people question how teams who operate in Division 1 can line out in junior championship. I know you say that champ and league are not linked but I know that to play in Division 1 of any league is a fair achievement.
In fact I witnessed a fine young Templenoe team last year win the junior final. They were junior in name only and I think I recall a Kerry man telling me that had defeated the Intermediate winners StMarys (another classy outfit) already that year. They now play Division 1 football in Kerry as well.
In Mayo for example there are 16 teams in senior championship (4 *4 groups) and 16 teams in the Inter championship so in theory the team that wins the junior title in Mayo is the 33rd ranked team.
As a matter of interest how many clubs compete in the senior and intermediate championships in Kerry excluding the divisional sides?And how many teams compete in junior premier and junior? Interested to know"
But it's not club football, you aren't playing for your club, you are playing for some sort of hybrid, amalgamated team. Small clubs around the county are fighting for their lives trying to keep going and fighting against having to amalgamate with their neighbours. I don't see the attraction in playing for this type of team to be honest.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts:409 - 22/02/2017 10:41:01   1959491

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Replying To Weary:  "Thanks for that. Just to clarify there are 8 senior teams (down from 11) in the enior championship? So how many teams compete in the Intermediate championship? How many in Premier Junior? And how many in junior? And final question is what is the difference between Premier junior and junior (previously Novice)?"
Well you have 9 divisional teams (where the bottom 2 playoff to eliminate 1) so you have 8 + 8 clubs to give 16 teams in County Championship.

There are 16 Intermediate, 16 Premier Junior , 18 in the Junior. Teams who lose in the 1st round of the Junior compete for the Novice Championship and the winners of that compete for the Munster Junior B Championship held every year in Knockaderry in Limerick

It has to be pointed a lot of the clubs particularly the 18 in Junior are struggling for numbers not only at Senior but even more vividly at Underage where you see 2,3 and even 4 clubs amalgamated which is a huge concern going forward for Kerry football

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts:210 - 22/02/2017 10:41:15   1959492

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http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/kingdoms-unique-structure-keeps-them-well-ahead-of-all-pretenders-314760.html

Good article - Might help some of the posters outside of Kerry understand our club format

surfdude62 (Kerry) - Posts:24 - 22/02/2017 10:48:20   1959495

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Replying To Weary:  "Thanks for that. Just to clarify there are 8 senior teams (down from 11) in the enior championship? So how many teams compete in the Intermediate championship? How many in Premier Junior? And how many in junior? And final question is what is the difference between Premier junior and junior (previously Novice)?"
senior - 8
intermediate - 16
premier junior - 16
junior - 18

The difference between premier junior and junior is just grading. What is now junior was previously called novice, in some counties it would be called junior b. Personally prefer if we stuck with the old naming system.

As was mentioned the number of senior teams was cut from 11 to 8, 2 or 3 years ago and it has improved the quality of not just the senior championship but all the championships and attendances seem to be up as well.

countyBounds (Kerry) - Posts:5 - 22/02/2017 10:54:55   1959496

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Two first cousins play for Finuge, they definitely had to play Skellig in an relegation play-off to retain their intermediate status either last year or the year before."
Thats fine an dandy all most of us are saying rock are a junior team in ur league they have been up to div 2 but dont think they won a game in it were as kerry teams can higher leauge ad for year derrytresk made there they hadnt won a junior champinship game in 8 years in fact they finnisjed bottom of junior leauge for 5 years in a row with only 6 wins in 5 years

hoopman (Tyrone) - Posts:72 - 22/02/2017 11:04:29   1959498

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Up until this year there were 11 clubs, now there are 8 in Senior

The main reason this was changed, people I'm Kerry weren't happy with the standard of the County Championship.

Too many mismatches, some divisional teams too weak , Crokes won 4 in a row without making a mark in the AI Series.

But we are been told that the Kerry championship is so strong, now we are told there is only 8 clubs good enough to take part in the senior championship! So can the rest then have players play for a divisional team in senior and still play for their clubs in the junior / intermediate?

benched (Tyrone) - Posts:409 - 22/02/2017 11:06:20   1959500

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Replying To benched:  "But it's not club football, you aren't playing for your club, you are playing for some sort of hybrid, amalgamated team. Small clubs around the county are fighting for their lives trying to keep going and fighting against having to amalgamate with their neighbours. I don't see the attraction in playing for this type of team to be honest."
Who said they don't play for their clubs as well?

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts:210 - 22/02/2017 11:13:11   1959506

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Replying To hoopman:  "Thats fine an dandy all most of us are saying rock are a junior team in ur league they have been up to div 2 but dont think they won a game in it were as kerry teams can higher leauge ad for year derrytresk made there they hadnt won a junior champinship game in 8 years in fact they finnisjed bottom of junior leauge for 5 years in a row with only 6 wins in 5 years"
Im also sure there are small clubs in kerry who never get much sliver wear i just think a team that has beat dr crokes this year( fact ) is it fair on the small clubs in kerry tht these teams can chose to drop down but again what if the ref hadnt sent of 2 rock men in the last 10 minutes and then let declan off with his leg breaker with a black card ?? And before u start i like him as a player think he is the most unrated player kerry have but call a spade a spade he could have an might still have ended a lads football

hoopman (Tyrone) - Posts:72 - 22/02/2017 11:18:05   1959510

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Replying To countyBounds:  "senior - 8
intermediate - 16
premier junior - 16
junior - 18

The difference between premier junior and junior is just grading. What is now junior was previously called novice, in some counties it would be called junior b. Personally prefer if we stuck with the old naming system.

As was mentioned the number of senior teams was cut from 11 to 8, 2 or 3 years ago and it has improved the quality of not just the senior championship but all the championships and attendances seem to be up as well."
Thanks for that. Makes it all alot clearer in my head now

Weary (All) - Posts:167 - 22/02/2017 11:31:24   1959512

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "Well you have 9 divisional teams (where the bottom 2 playoff to eliminate 1) so you have 8 + 8 clubs to give 16 teams in County Championship.

There are 16 Intermediate, 16 Premier Junior , 18 in the Junior. Teams who lose in the 1st round of the Junior compete for the Novice Championship and the winners of that compete for the Munster Junior B Championship held every year in Knockaderry in Limerick

It has to be pointed a lot of the clubs particularly the 18 in Junior are struggling for numbers not only at Senior but even more vividly at Underage where you see 2,3 and even 4 clubs amalgamated which is a huge concern going forward for Kerry football"
Thanks for that. Clubs are struggling all over the country for numbers particularly along the west coast unfortunately. Amalgamations at underage are inevitable. Thanks again for clearing up the numbers for me

Weary (All) - Posts:167 - 22/02/2017 11:36:13   1959514

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