National - All-Ireland Junior Football Final

Tyrone's system is the exact same as Down's, the prize for winning the league and championship is the same you move up to the next tier of football. Perhaps if Tyrone structure was the same as Kerry's we'd have more winners of the All Ireland series, as our level of club football is every bit as high as kerry's as Sunday proved. We would struggle to compete in div 1 in Tyrone and would take a few hidings along the way so it's surprising to see Glenbeigh Glencar cope in senior league in Kerry. I genuinely believe we were every bit as good a team as those boys there was nothing it, I'll say little about the ref as how we had 3 men sent off I am still struggling to fathom, we were physical yes dirty no.

rockman1 (Tyrone) - Posts:5 - 21/02/2017 14:21:35   1959168

Link

Replying To Soma:  "So presumably performance in the league doesn't affect promotion or relegation, that is done through the championship and so the league is meaningless?
As I understand it Kerry club football is similar to intercounty hurling where league position has no impact on what championship a team plays in. For example this year Meath are in 2B but will play in the Liam McCarthy, Antrim are 2A but will play Christy Ring. I am certain the Kerry club setup is a major reason for their success at intercounty level."
Agreed.

In Kerry, traditionally in yesteryear it would be very difficult for county managers to view every Junior and intermediate team play. However, with the divisional system, any player from any club can have a chance to play senior and have the opportunity to be in the shop window for wantvof a better phrase.

Players like Pat Spillane and Mick O'Connell would never have played senior championship if it was not for divisions, and may have never graced the county game.

Imagine how many top players may have been missed in your own counties down the years that wouldn't have in a divisional system.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts:82 - 21/02/2017 14:33:44   1959171

Link

Replying To Soma:  "So presumably performance in the league doesn't affect promotion or relegation, that is done through the championship and so the league is meaningless?
As I understand it Kerry club football is similar to intercounty hurling where league position has no impact on what championship a team plays in. For example this year Meath are in 2B but will play in the Liam McCarthy, Antrim are 2A but will play Christy Ring. I am certain the Kerry club setup is a major reason for their success at intercounty level."
Certainly a major reason in the success of their teams in the All-Ireland junior club anyway, especially as it seems it is Junior Premier winners not Junior winners that represent them in the interprovincial and All-Ireland series. Feel sorry for the genuine small junior clubs in Kerry to be honest.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts:447 - 21/02/2017 14:35:38   1959174

Link

Replying To rockman1:  "Tyrone's system is the exact same as Down's, the prize for winning the league and championship is the same you move up to the next tier of football. Perhaps if Tyrone structure was the same as Kerry's we'd have more winners of the All Ireland series, as our level of club football is every bit as high as kerry's as Sunday proved. We would struggle to compete in div 1 in Tyrone and would take a few hidings along the way so it's surprising to see Glenbeigh Glencar cope in senior league in Kerry. I genuinely believe we were every bit as good a team as those boys there was nothing it, I'll say little about the ref as how we had 3 men sent off I am still struggling to fathom, we were physical yes dirty no."
Down here county players play only 2 or 3 county league games while they will play all championship games - both county and district board. So in Glenbeigh's case they were only missing Darren while Dr. Crokes or Legion could have been missing 3 or 4 players on a given weekend.
What do you mean by Senior League?? - maybe I missed it.

countyBounds (Kerry) - Posts:5 - 21/02/2017 14:43:18   1959178

Link

Replying To benched:  "Certainly a major reason in the success of their teams in the All-Ireland junior club anyway, especially as it seems it is Junior Premier winners not Junior winners that represent them in the interprovincial and All-Ireland series. Feel sorry for the genuine small junior clubs in Kerry to be honest."
They only brought in the 'Junior Premier' designation lately, before that it was 'junior' and 'novice' championships/clubs now its 'junior premier' and 'junior'.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:2885 - 21/02/2017 14:47:56   1959179

Link

Replying To benched:  "Certainly a major reason in the success of their teams in the All-Ireland junior club anyway, especially as it seems it is Junior Premier winners not Junior winners that represent them in the interprovincial and All-Ireland series. Feel sorry for the genuine small junior clubs in Kerry to be honest."
They were renamed 2 or 3 years ago previously Senior, Intermediate, Junior, Novice

countyBounds (Kerry) - Posts:5 - 21/02/2017 14:49:43   1959180

Link

By Senior league, I am referring in Division 1 which is what we call it at home. Ulster football is the same across the board, if you play Division 1 league your play Senior championship etc. I am not doubting kerry club football is very good, I'm just suggesting if someone like an Edendork/Eglish/Greencastle who are lower level Division 1 in tyrone teams they would certainly think of themselves as too strong to compete in the all ireland junior series. Then again Cookstown Div 2 team at the time, were much too strong for Finuge in the intermediate final that night looked fairly comfortable and Spa when they played and as far as I am aware both teams played their league football in Div 1 at the time.

rockman1 (Tyrone) - Posts:5 - 21/02/2017 15:09:15   1959186

Link

Replying To TheHermit:  "They only brought in the 'Junior Premier' designation lately, before that it was 'junior' and 'novice' championships/clubs now its 'junior premier' and 'junior'."
Hermit, as a matter of interest, how many Junior football club All-Irelands have Kerry won?

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:884 - 21/02/2017 15:14:41   1959190

Link

It's the same in Laois, Offaly, Kildare - your league division has no bearing on what championship you play in.

In Laois this year you would have three senior football championship teams (Clonaslee, Ballyfin and Mountmellick) playing in the third level of the league. They will be in the same division as four junior championship teams (Park/Ratheniska, Kilcavan, St Joseph's "B" and The Heath "B").

Heraf (Laois) - Posts:312 - 21/02/2017 15:17:23   1959191

Link

Replying To TheHermit:  "They only brought in the 'Junior Premier' designation lately, before that it was 'junior' and 'novice' championships/clubs now its 'junior premier' and 'junior'."
I watched the Junior Club final on Sunday and then watched the Intermediate Club final. The difference in skill level and strength was glaring. There was only one stand out player in the Junior game and that was the midfielder Griffin. Pure junior football. The Inter game was excellent football.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts:421 - 21/02/2017 15:27:56   1959196

Link

Replying To TheHermit:  "So if Rock got promoted to Division 1 of the Tyrone League would they automatically become a senior club in Tyrone?

Glenbeigh is an amalgamation of 2 clubs as it is because they have such few numbers. They have a decent side and managed to gain promotion to Division 1. But they don't have the numbers to be competing as a senior club in the Championship.

The fact Kerry have divisional teams in our championship is because we've always had to struggle against emigration especially in areas like west and south Kerry.

P.S. Glenbeigh were the better side, ref had nothing to do with it.
It's also about time Kerry clubs got a bit of protection from the referee's when they play teams from Tyrone. Do you need to be reminded of the antics of Derrytresk and Cookstown a few years back?"
Yes if rock got promoted to div 1 they would be senior team . It is wrong system in Kerry

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts:14955 - 21/02/2017 15:29:50   1959197

Link

Replying To Soma:  "So presumably performance in the league doesn't affect promotion or relegation, that is done through the championship and so the league is meaningless?
As I understand it Kerry club football is similar to intercounty hurling where league position has no impact on what championship a team plays in. For example this year Meath are in 2B but will play in the Liam McCarthy, Antrim are 2A but will play Christy Ring. I am certain the Kerry club setup is a major reason for their success at intercounty level."
The league isn't necessarily meaningless because if you win the league in Kerry and a divisional team wins county championship then the league winners represent Kerry in the Munster and allireland senior club championship .

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts:5659 - 21/02/2017 15:30:18   1959198

Link

Replying To neverright:  "Hermit, as a matter of interest, how many Junior football club All-Irelands have Kerry won?"
How many of theae winners have been senior teams ?? Wht is a senior team proving having beat dr crokes in the league had they not the bottle to face them in champinship qhat next will ucd drop down to the hogan cup !! Fair play to the rock and i have very little love for the rock but hats off

hoopman (Tyrone) - Posts:72 - 21/02/2017 15:35:24   1959202

Link

Replying To neverright:  "Hermit, as a matter of interest, how many Junior football club All-Irelands have Kerry won?"
In 15 seasons, Kerry clubs have won 8 and appeared in 10 finals.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:2885 - 21/02/2017 15:38:55   1959204

Link

Surely then the ;league is completely irrelevant in Kerry? I thought someone above said they take it deadly serious. How can you if county players only play 3 games? This issue crops up all the time and was the same a few years ago. It definitely doesn't seem to be alevel playing field.

If you do as you say take the league serious and a team have done enough to make it to division 1 of the Kerry league then they most certainly are not a junior level team. you are making out like the field 2 different sides here.

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts:908 - 21/02/2017 15:42:09   1959207

Link

Replying To Farney:  "In Monaghan, there is Division 1 - Senior, Division 2 - Intermediate, and Division 3 - Junior... Simple...

Please don't be bringing Derrytresk up again.. I want to erase them from my memory..."
Thats the way the DOWN league is set up i think its v simple to run and understand,

Yourjoking (USA) - Posts:371 - 21/02/2017 15:43:27   1959209

Link

I think all leagues in ulster our the same all teams in div 1 enter senior championship, div 2 inter and div3 junior championship, i didn't relise other counties have teams in div 3 playing in there senior championship i find this weird sure if there playing junior teams why our they playing in the senior championship? who decided that?
If there playing junior teams is that not there standard?

Yourjoking (USA) - Posts:371 - 21/02/2017 15:54:13   1959214

Link

So Glenbeigh/Glencar winning the junior is kinda like say, Offaly Senior hurlers winning the Lory Meagher? Fair play to them all the same.

Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts:11272 - 21/02/2017 15:54:34   1959215

Link

Replying To TheHermit:  "In 15 seasons, Kerry clubs have won 8 and appeared in 10 finals."
How many off them played in the junior league! These days are forcthe wee clubs to have there day not for senior teams to get a cheap medal its up to croke park to do whats right and fair but then dubs and kingdom have there own rules

hoopman (Tyrone) - Posts:72 - 21/02/2017 15:54:56   1959216

Link

Replying To TheHermit:  "In 15 seasons, Kerry clubs have won 8 and appeared in 10 finals."
And won 5 intermediate clubs as well. The story is similar in hurling where Kilkenny and Cork clubs dominate.
Most of these Kerry wins at junior club level were by no more than 2-3 points, it's not as if they are blowing teams away. The exception were Caherciveen who were way too good for junior level but found themselves down there. How long have Glenbeigh been a junior club? Were they recently relegated?

Soma (UK) - Posts:1981 - 21/02/2017 15:56:13   1959217

Link