National - All-Ireland Junior Football Final

First of all, congratulations to the Kerry team on their win and commiserations to the Tyrone team. On reading a report on the game I am left a bit confused on the rules of the competition. The report said that Glenbeigh/Glencar ' play their domestic football in the senior grade, and recently defeated Dr. Croke's, yet they are now All-Ireland junior champions'. Is this actually correct, or is the reporter mistaken. It seems rather strange, to say the least, if it is true. an any posters shed some light on this?

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:738 - 20/02/2017 23:11:33   1958955

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Replying To neverright:  "First of all, congratulations to the Kerry team on their win and commiserations to the Tyrone team. On reading a report on the game I am left a bit confused on the rules of the competition. The report said that Glenbeigh/Glencar ' play their domestic football in the senior grade, and recently defeated Dr. Croke's, yet they are now All-Ireland junior champions'. Is this actually correct, or is the reporter mistaken. It seems rather strange, to say the least, if it is true. an any posters shed some light on this?"
Not sure but I do know there is something weird about the Kerry Championship and think there is option to opt for whatever championship you want to go for - but not 100% sure. If they are indeed a senior team or even an intermediate team they shouldn't be competing against junior teams in AI series - just not right.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts:626 - 21/02/2017 10:16:26   1959030

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Replying To neverright:  "First of all, congratulations to the Kerry team on their win and commiserations to the Tyrone team. On reading a report on the game I am left a bit confused on the rules of the competition. The report said that Glenbeigh/Glencar ' play their domestic football in the senior grade, and recently defeated Dr. Croke's, yet they are now All-Ireland junior champions'. Is this actually correct, or is the reporter mistaken. It seems rather strange, to say the least, if it is true. an any posters shed some light on this?"
They play in Division 1 of the Kerry County League so they are in there with clubs that would be senior in the Co Championship like Crokes.

But for the Co Championship they are a junior grade team. Any of their players that are considered good enough, like Darran, play for a divisional team in the County Senior Championship called Mid-Kerry.

Unlike a lot of county's the Leagues in Kerry are taken pretty seriously and have a lot of prestige.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:2502 - 21/02/2017 10:50:11   1959056

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Thats a bit rich rock are a 3rd divison team they play in that league the fact that kerry teams can drop down to junior is a joke they are the only county in ireland that do that fairs fair plus at end of day it took ref to help them out

hoopman (Tyrone) - Posts:72 - 21/02/2017 11:30:27   1959076

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Replying To hoopman:  "Thats a bit rich rock are a 3rd divison team they play in that league the fact that kerry teams can drop down to junior is a joke they are the only county in ireland that do that fairs fair plus at end of day it took ref to help them out"
So if Rock got promoted to Division 1 of the Tyrone League would they automatically become a senior club in Tyrone?

Glenbeigh is an amalgamation of 2 clubs as it is because they have such few numbers. They have a decent side and managed to gain promotion to Division 1. But they don't have the numbers to be competing as a senior club in the Championship.

The fact Kerry have divisional teams in our championship is because we've always had to struggle against emigration especially in areas like west and south Kerry.

P.S. Glenbeigh were the better side, ref had nothing to do with it.
It's also about time Kerry clubs got a bit of protection from the referee's when they play teams from Tyrone. Do you need to be reminded of the antics of Derrytresk and Cookstown a few years back?

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:2502 - 21/02/2017 12:04:55   1959090

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theHermit...what are you banging on about? your saying that they dont have the numbers to compete at senior championship but are in division 1, that makes no sense! plus every club in the whole counrty have to deal with emigration so stop making excuses. the kerry championship is a complete joke if you can pick what grade you enter...

milk (Galway) - Posts:35 - 21/02/2017 12:20:32   1959095

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Replying To TheHermit:  "So if Rock got promoted to Division 1 of the Tyrone League would they automatically become a senior club in Tyrone?

Glenbeigh is an amalgamation of 2 clubs as it is because they have such few numbers. They have a decent side and managed to gain promotion to Division 1. But they don't have the numbers to be competing as a senior club in the Championship.

The fact Kerry have divisional teams in our championship is because we've always had to struggle against emigration especially in areas like west and south Kerry.

P.S. Glenbeigh were the better side, ref had nothing to do with it.
It's also about time Kerry clubs got a bit of protection from the referee's when they play teams from Tyrone. Do you need to be reminded of the antics of Derrytresk and Cookstown a few years back?"
Yeah there is always only one side to the story when it comes to the poor aul Kerry snowflakes.

Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts:11083 - 21/02/2017 12:31:29   1959101

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It's a bit of a joke that a Division 1 team - in a county where apparently the leagues are taken "pretty seriously" - are allowed to compete in this competition against genuine Junior teams. Certainly seems to go against the spirit of the competition - I have no allegiance to Rock by the way - who next year will compete in the Tyrone Intermediate Championship on account of winning the 2016 junior. Similarly their neighbours Pomeroy, beaten Ulster Intermediate finalists will now play senior for 2017

benched (Tyrone) - Posts:409 - 21/02/2017 12:32:14   1959102

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Replying To TheHermit:  "So if Rock got promoted to Division 1 of the Tyrone League would they automatically become a senior club in Tyrone?

Glenbeigh is an amalgamation of 2 clubs as it is because they have such few numbers. They have a decent side and managed to gain promotion to Division 1. But they don't have the numbers to be competing as a senior club in the Championship.

The fact Kerry have divisional teams in our championship is because we've always had to struggle against emigration especially in areas like west and south Kerry.

P.S. Glenbeigh were the better side, ref had nothing to do with it.
It's also about time Kerry clubs got a bit of protection from the referee's when they play teams from Tyrone. Do you need to be reminded of the antics of Derrytresk and Cookstown a few years back?"
Hermit, in down div 1 teams our in the senior championship so if you have a div3 team that wins that then div2 then they enter the senior championship i though that would be the same all over ireland?
I dont understand how you saying that don't have the players to play in the senior championship in kerry yet there playing these teams in div 1 how many players do you need?
This does seem v unfair that there playing senior league but junior championship, what leagues our rest of junior teams in?
Regarding match itself i though it was a great game with some serious scores from both teams and every player gave it there all.

Yourjoking (USA) - Posts:348 - 21/02/2017 12:45:11   1959105

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Replying To Yourjoking:  "Hermit, in down div 1 teams our in the senior championship so if you have a div3 team that wins that then div2 then they enter the senior championship i though that would be the same all over ireland?
I dont understand how you saying that don't have the players to play in the senior championship in kerry yet there playing these teams in div 1 how many players do you need?
This does seem v unfair that there playing senior league but junior championship, what leagues our rest of junior teams in?
Regarding match itself i though it was a great game with some serious scores from both teams and every player gave it there all."
Entirely agree with most of the above a Division 1 team should not be playing Junior championship, its the reason why Kerry's record is so good in the competition, templenoe last years winners are also a Div 1 side. In regards to Glenbeigh glencar being a better side highly debatable, we had spells where we where well on top and we played a lot of the game with a man or 2 less. In regards to kerry men getting protection, only 1 man man struck out on sunday and that was a kerry man. How the ref sent 3 men of in what wasn't a dirty but physical game is beyond me, we had history with this ref from brosna replay 2014 and we genuinely feared we wouldn't get a fair crack turned out to be the case. All that being said we were immensely proud of the lads some excellent performances, Glenbeigh fullback will be having nightmares for weeks he couldn't lay a glove on conor mccreeesh who kicked some beautiful scores. We have fine footballers up in tyrone as well i think kerry people forget, and to conclude we are 1 of the smallest clubs in tyrone who suffered dramatically with emigration so that's no excuse.

rockman1 (Tyrone) - Posts:5 - 21/02/2017 13:08:37   1959119

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Replying To Yourjoking:  "Hermit, in down div 1 teams our in the senior championship so if you have a div3 team that wins that then div2 then they enter the senior championship i though that would be the same all over ireland?
I dont understand how you saying that don't have the players to play in the senior championship in kerry yet there playing these teams in div 1 how many players do you need?
This does seem v unfair that there playing senior league but junior championship, what leagues our rest of junior teams in?
Regarding match itself i though it was a great game with some serious scores from both teams and every player gave it there all."
In Galway you can be playing division one league football and playing in a junior championship. League and championship are separate competitions. You could conceivably climb the divisions without ever winning your championship.

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts:175 - 21/02/2017 13:10:09   1959120

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Replying To Yourjoking:  "Hermit, in down div 1 teams our in the senior championship so if you have a div3 team that wins that then div2 then they enter the senior championship i though that would be the same all over ireland?
I dont understand how you saying that don't have the players to play in the senior championship in kerry yet there playing these teams in div 1 how many players do you need?
This does seem v unfair that there playing senior league but junior championship, what leagues our rest of junior teams in?
Regarding match itself i though it was a great game with some serious scores from both teams and every player gave it there all."
What if every county had senior teams playing in junior champinship maybe next year cross will drop down

hoopman (Tyrone) - Posts:72 - 21/02/2017 13:14:58   1959124

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Replying To milk:  "theHermit...what are you banging on about? your saying that they dont have the numbers to compete at senior championship but are in division 1, that makes no sense! plus every club in the whole counrty have to deal with emigration so stop making excuses. the kerry championship is a complete joke if you can pick what grade you enter..."
The Divisional teams have been going a long time and have a history and a tradition that is strong. When it comes to the Senior County Championship down here, players that want to have a chance of winning a senior medal will invariably opt to be part of their set-ups rather than sticking with the smaller clubs and seeing if they can declare as senior.

Its just the system we have, its a product of the economic/social/historical factors that are unique to Kerry and it seems to work well by and large.

Now personally there's a lot of things about the Divisional club system I don't agree with. For example you have a town like Listowel (the third biggest in Kerry) has only the one club and yet the Emmets opt to play as part of Feale Rangers Divisional side instead of trying to be a senior club in their own right. Same thing with the Desmonds in Castleisland. Even St Mary's in Cahirciveen opt to be part of South Kerry rather than being senior these days.


Bare in mind also that no divisional teams are allowed to compete in the Senior-All Ireland club championships.

At the end of the day its up to Kerry how they structure their own championships. Glenbeigh is graded as a junior club, they aren't breaking any rules by doing so.

If the standard of intermediate and junior club football in Kerry is so high that they regularly find themselves in Croke Park this time of yea, that's hardly a surprise given its Kerry we are talking about!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:2502 - 21/02/2017 13:16:25   1959125

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Replying To Yourjoking:  "Hermit, in down div 1 teams our in the senior championship so if you have a div3 team that wins that then div2 then they enter the senior championship i though that would be the same all over ireland?
I dont understand how you saying that don't have the players to play in the senior championship in kerry yet there playing these teams in div 1 how many players do you need?
This does seem v unfair that there playing senior league but junior championship, what leagues our rest of junior teams in?
Regarding match itself i though it was a great game with some serious scores from both teams and every player gave it there all."
Guys, you've all lost the plot. If indeed that is true in Down, I think you are the only county where that happens and I don't think that is correct.

League and Championship are different competitions, as proven by the fact you can play league for two clubs in two counties, but not championship, therefore having your league position determine the Championship you play in could be deemed illegal in current format. Anyway I don't know enough about Down to comment.

When talking about Kerry, the rules are the exact same as other counties. Glenbeigh will be intermediate next year. So both Rock and Glenbeigh are the same grade.

Now if you guys don't know understand the divisional system, that's fair enough, however this has no baring on all ireland as Darran O'Sullivan or any other Kerry, or Cork player I may add as we have the same system, cannot represent their county as a divisional team in a club competition, whether they win senior or not. They can only do so for their club, as in Glenbeigh.

Nothing above is relevant, the Rock were beaten on the day in an excellent and competitive final. It's hard to lose a game of magnitude by such small margins but that's sport.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts:30 - 21/02/2017 13:30:30   1959134

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Replying To milk:  "theHermit...what are you banging on about? your saying that they dont have the numbers to compete at senior championship but are in division 1, that makes no sense! plus every club in the whole counrty have to deal with emigration so stop making excuses. the kerry championship is a complete joke if you can pick what grade you enter..."
You can't pick the grade.
Glenbeigh will be in the inter c'ship next year because the won the junior c'ship.
If they win that then the can break from Mid Kerry and go senior, which I can't see happening.
I would have thought most counties run their championship status independent of the league?

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts:1184 - 21/02/2017 13:49:04   1959148

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Why is it that only time we here about the evil tyrone teams is when they win ??

hoopman (Tyrone) - Posts:72 - 21/02/2017 13:53:13   1959149

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In Monaghan, there is Division 1 - Senior, Division 2 - Intermediate, and Division 3 - Junior... Simple...

Please don't be bringing Derrytresk up again.. I want to erase them from my memory...

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts:568 - 21/02/2017 13:54:20   1959150

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long time lurker first time poster here - time to explain the Kerry system.

County league
5 divisions of 12, except for div 5 which has 13. these are clubs A teams except for 3 clubs with also enter their B teams
promotion/relegation with 3 up/down
championship grade is not a consideration in league - if your team can work it way up though the divisions that is where you play, also if you drop down that is where you play

County championship
This is open to the 8 senior clubs and 9 divisional sides who are drawn from intermediate, junior premier and junior teams.
the 2 lowest ranked divisional sides play in a prelim round
it is then run off like the Christy Ring cup until the qf's

Club championships
clubs are graded as follows
Senior - 8
Intermediate - 16
Junior premier - 16
Junior - 18
All of these are straight knockout
the winners of the intermediate and junior represent Kerry in their respective championships
If a club wins the County championship then they represent Kerry, otherwise the winners of the Senior Club championship represent Kerry

Club B and C teams have their own leagues and championships

Most of the district boards run their own leagues and championships, and the championships are fiercely contested. Not sure but in the case of most of these championships your grade in the county does not matter as all teams are entered. I know that is the case in East Kerry where all 13 teams are entered in an open draw with the previous years finalists and one other team receiving a bye to the qf .

Hope that clears up some of the confusion.

countyBounds (Kerry) - Posts:5 - 21/02/2017 13:55:08   1959151

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Replying To countyBounds:  "long time lurker first time poster here - time to explain the Kerry system.

County league
5 divisions of 12, except for div 5 which has 13. these are clubs A teams except for 3 clubs with also enter their B teams
promotion/relegation with 3 up/down
championship grade is not a consideration in league - if your team can work it way up though the divisions that is where you play, also if you drop down that is where you play

County championship
This is open to the 8 senior clubs and 9 divisional sides who are drawn from intermediate, junior premier and junior teams.
the 2 lowest ranked divisional sides play in a prelim round
it is then run off like the Christy Ring cup until the qf's

Club championships
clubs are graded as follows
Senior - 8
Intermediate - 16
Junior premier - 16
Junior - 18
All of these are straight knockout
the winners of the intermediate and junior represent Kerry in their respective championships
If a club wins the County championship then they represent Kerry, otherwise the winners of the Senior Club championship represent Kerry

Club B and C teams have their own leagues and championships

Most of the district boards run their own leagues and championships, and the championships are fiercely contested. Not sure but in the case of most of these championships your grade in the county does not matter as all teams are entered. I know that is the case in East Kerry where all 13 teams are entered in an open draw with the previous years finalists and one other team receiving a bye to the qf .

Hope that clears up some of the confusion."
One mistake - the winners of the Junior premier represent Kerry

countyBounds (Kerry) - Posts:5 - 21/02/2017 14:05:48   1959156

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Replying To Farney:  "In Monaghan, there is Division 1 - Senior, Division 2 - Intermediate, and Division 3 - Junior... Simple...

Please don't be bringing Derrytresk up again.. I want to erase them from my memory..."
So presumably performance in the league doesn't affect promotion or relegation, that is done through the championship and so the league is meaningless?
As I understand it Kerry club football is similar to intercounty hurling where league position has no impact on what championship a team plays in. For example this year Meath are in 2B but will play in the Liam McCarthy, Antrim are 2A but will play Christy Ring. I am certain the Kerry club setup is a major reason for their success at intercounty level.

Soma (UK) - Posts:1843 - 21/02/2017 14:16:48   1959163

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